Health season 3

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What should the health be for season 3

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Re: Health season 3

Post by Machiavellus on July 24th 2012, 9:25 pm

1 -2. So you still want to be able to fire block tanks. Not properly light them. You just want people to block tanks off for an hour and then have the tank go in banging with 2% rage. That's boring.

1 molly puts pressure on the tank to not get lit. It puts pressure on the survivors to keep track of the person with their molly.

With a gas can, the tank incaps Survivor A, carrying gascan A, and survivor B sprays bullets lighting the can. Thus tank is lit.

With a molly Survivor A is on the ground. And in order to light the tank now they need to pick him up or kill him to get the molly.

Good player A runs after Tank A with gas can. Spams RT. throws can. Bullets light can. Fire spreads midair around tank being chased and he is lit.

Good player A runs after Tank A with molly. Tank anticipates good player A's throw jumps on a bench, blocks the molly with his body then jumps backwards off the bench while the molly is flying backwards towards the ground. (YES THAT IS HOW MOLLEIS WORK ON L4D2. It was L4D1 where they smashed on your body Wink)

So anyway. Second scenario shows that you -can- avoid point blank mollies.

If mollies still prove to be some kind of issue with no gas cans, they'll of course be banned. But I just don't see how it can be an issue on -xbox-

Gas cans are removed because they -do not- take skill to use. Sure spiking a molly at the ground of an incoming tank doesn't take skill either, BUT YOU CAN INCAP THE GUY WITH THE MOLLY AND RENDER IT USELESS. How is the not mroe balanced than a gascan that immediately falls for free tank lights?

Sigh L4D2 community. Sigh. Just sigh.
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Re: Health season 3

Post by L2Aim on July 24th 2012, 10:24 pm

4 Pills, nuff said.
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Re: Health season 3

Post by Mayor Haggar on July 25th 2012, 12:14 am

Patriots8781 wrote:We got rid of health kits for the reason of too much health. WTF has this community come to

ummm.... i don't feel like you read what i said patriots.

and mach saying that there will be enough cans to fire block twice assumes that they will be in the same location. How often do you think you'd see them together if their spawns were reduced to 1-2? There might not even be two gas cans that chapter, and often do you think they could pull that off carrying a gas can like half the map just to have two. It doesn't even make sense. Stop, thinking up hypothetical situations that support your theory in a single instance and no others.

Now, mach cmon you know better than to keep implying the molly requires more skill than a gas can. It has greater range and greater control. We could put up a poll, and the community would agree almost unanimously that the molly is a much greater threat to the tank than a gas can. No Quesiton.
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Re: Health season 3

Post by Machiavellus on July 25th 2012, 12:43 am

The main maps that are even an issue are DaC1 and 2. On Carny 1 you'd almost always get both gas cans near the motel. Giving you two cans to light/fireblock tank with.

And on Carny 3 you're going to find them near that warehouse, where people used to fireblock and hide on top of the shelves. So a kiddie land tank is easily blocked twice while survivors book it back to the saferoom. But really he can easily be blocked their once, and a gas can will still more than likely be within reach to grab and hold to try and light the tank for.

Limiting it down to gas cans just means, tanks are probably giong to get fireblocked on those maps, and never get lit on any other maps. There's a couple in some spots on Parish but it's highly unreliable that you'll be able to cop a can for a tank.

I'm not positive, but I'm sure it's plausible to simply limit the gas cans, but if the no gas can fix made it into the mutation, it's already there. Or not. there's no changing that now either way really. So we'll have to work with whatever the mutation is like at DLC release.

The simple facts of gas cans stand though. I'll agree that they wouldn't be as obnoxious if they were limited to 1. But then there's still the problem that tank caps are going to result in him getting lit unless the other 3 survivors are seriously distracted.... which should mean he's about to wipe them anyway regardless of being lit.... :\ And if they're not distracted, he's going to be getting murdered by uzis anyway....

And the problem that once people are forced to learn how to light a tank with a gas can, and realize how easy it is with an uzi, tanks are going to get lit infinitely more than by mollies.

whose tank was getting lit from more than four feet away anyway?
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Re: Health season 3

Post by Mayor Haggar on July 26th 2012, 6:02 am

but it still requires more skill, just admit it
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Re: Health season 3

Post by Machiavellus on July 26th 2012, 7:49 am

No it doesn't. It's comparing apples to oranges. They're both fruit. They're both fire. But they're not the same thing.

Scaling the skill it takes to use one against the other isn't possible, because molotovs are something that takes one person's individual skill to light.

A gas can has 4 people that can use shoot it to light it. It can be pre-placed, and used to light a tank you've been LOSing basically giving him the choice, get lit, or go AI. And you don't have to put your gun down to light a tank with a gas can. In fact you need your gun out. So you're free to go back to clearing SI or shooting the tank once you've lit him, no need to wait for your gun to pull back out to go back to helping the team.

And again everyone is capable of lighting the can, rather than the molly who is the responsibility of one person.

But again it's comparing apples to orange. It certainly takes much more hand movement to get a can into place... and more buttons are pushed....

But the skill it takes to light a tank with a molly isn't determined by how hard it is to spike a molly at your feet before he punches you. More difficult molly lights require angle calculation, prediction, and timing. And all of that is on par with how difficult it is to get a -good- gas can light.

But even if you want to gauge it by how hard it is to spike a molly, then we must compare it to how hard it is to kite a raging tank into an easy gas can light. Which is similarly easy.

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Re: Health season 3

Post by Mayor Haggar on July 26th 2012, 12:31 pm

Mach, you're just being stubborn. These are two in game objects that produce fire. One of them is able to light the tank more easily based upon its varying characteristics. If you want we could evaluate those characteristics in order to determine the difficulty/skill in lighting the tank with said object. Obviously, the object with the greater characteristics requires less skill, and the one with the lesser characteritics requires more skill.

This evaluation would be objective and unopinionated therefore producing an ubiased decision. Simple right (isn't the scientific method great)? Now, before i continue would you like to offer your hypothesis? Mine is that the molly has greater in game characteristics and therefore requires less skill. What's yours?


Last edited by Mayor Haggar on July 26th 2012, 6:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Health season 3

Post by mkj13 on July 26th 2012, 2:21 pm

my head hurtz

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Re: Health season 3

Post by SicKxLiquiD on July 26th 2012, 6:24 pm

Lets just agree that fire blocking is gay and we wont be seeing much of it cause a molly is the only fire you get.

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Re: Health season 3

Post by Mayor Haggar on July 26th 2012, 7:32 pm

we already agree fire blocking is gay im sure.
also i was suggesting that we remove mollies
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Re: Health season 3

Post by mkj13 on July 26th 2012, 9:11 pm

lets give the final update on mutaion the chance before we remove mollies.
lets see how everyone feels about the final version

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Re: Health season 3

Post by Machiavellus on July 27th 2012, 3:25 am

I'm not just being stubborn. I even went and looked around for some other opinions on gascans vs molly mid-discussion.

If you really want to evaluate them. My crazy individual examples that don't apply to real game situations, can be skewed in many ways. Offering one example in detail was just a demonstration of a theory, from these examples you can build many more applicable examples showing that A. Mollies are much easier to avoid than gascan fire. B. Gascans can be lit easily by any of the four survivors, mollies can only be thrown by one player. C. Mollies can be thrown much greater distances, and any toss beyond the distance you can throwlight a gas can, requires greater angle calculation and prediction than the most difficult throwlight with a gas can. And D. Gascans are much more versatile than a molotov.

Your argument proposes that gas cans take more skill. Which has clearly been disproved, but further states that teams won't be able to carry cans through maps or something. And since I'm really not sure how much L4D1 you've played, I'm not sure you realize what people are capable of.

I have seen teams carry gas cans to ridiculous lengths on L4D1 when they're "try-harding" It's not that hard to bring a can along, as long as all four of you aren't spamming uzis wildly everytime secures come in. AND EVEN THEN. You can put the can in a nice corner and it'll be fine Wink

And spitter goo does not light cans that aren't from scavenge finales so. No.

Sure maybe carrying a gascan through a map takes more skill than carrying a molly, but this is a zombie shooting game, not a carrying gas can game. And realistically I don't think very many teams would ever bother carrying a gascan through a map like that. So all that only allowing gas cans really does to the metagame, is make it so that people get really good at gas can lights in the few places where cans still spawn. That's the way it's going to end up if we get good at killing tanks with mollies either way though.

So just settle down and play the mode as is and see how it goes.
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Re: Health season 3

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