Another Season?

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Another Season?

Post by dave14810 on April 22nd 2013, 6:05 pm

I was wondering if there was even any interest in doing another season? There was one league game played in April and only 5 teams played any games after the 2nd week of March. There are obviously enough players trying to play "competitively" since we had 20 teams of 5/6 players at some point or another and there were another few teams who had only signed up for the other league so there are still plenty of players.

I thought going into this season there were 8 teams that could potentially win it which is pretty decent by any competition standards but unfortunately a few of them didn't end up playing a whole lot. The flip side of that is the other 12 teams had exactly zero % chance of winning. There was literally no upset wins in 118 matches that were played. The only possible upset was Crafty beating Domestic later in the season, which wasn't even that much of an upset.

If there is enough interest I would suggest we do a draft tourney, possibly do 3 or 4 weeks of league games and then finish playoffs over a few days. There would be a leader who would chose their co-leader and possibly a player who they know and like who they hasn't had a chance to play on a competitive team pre-draft. Then everyone would be drafted who signed up, with rosters of 6 or 7 with no one been left undrafted. Anyway just a thought.

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Re: Another Season?

Post by #Dingodile# on April 23rd 2013, 8:42 pm

You guys need to change the format.

A tournament with a double-elimination bracket.It will be quick, less games to play, and can attract some new teams that dont like to play in the league format.

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Re: Another Season?

Post by SicKxLiquiD on April 23rd 2013, 11:30 pm

I think we need to make the season shorter. It was great at first and a lot of fun. I also hope more players would make teams next time around. There are a lot of players I like who play L4D constantly but don't ever participate in the tournament. LMs are more fun than 4v4s. -Fact

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Re: Another Season?

Post by dave14810 on April 24th 2013, 6:05 pm

The main problem with doing a double elimination tourney is, based on how difficult doing playoffs have been in the past, that it would take forever to do the tourney. I would like to do a swiss system tournament, I've seen some pc tournies do this, but it has the same problem.

I thought 2 months for LM's was way too long, it was my main concern which I brought up on the podcast before the season started. I think 3 or 4 weeks for LM's is about right if we did a draft tourney since it would give teams time to gel a bit, maybe 2 or 3 weeks for a enter your own team season.

I'm not having a dig at anyone but when people stack their teams with whats left of the remaining top players, people are less inclined to throw together a team to get destroyed. We could make so many teams if maybe 2 or 3 players on the current top teams would go and get players who they know are decent, like them and maybe don't get an opportunity to play in the tournies. I tried to put together teams for the last few seasons and never got enough interest to participate. The same people I tried to recruit might respond differently if they are asked by a duo of say EBK and IRYUU. I think there are plenty of players around who if they make teams get destroyed but if they have a top player or two on the team can easily slot in and do fine.

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Re: Another Season?

Post by SicKxLiquiD on April 24th 2013, 8:02 pm

I really like the idea of 2 top players starting a team and filling the rest of the spots more than an actual draft. Maybe people can put themself in a "draft" pool and the leaders can ask anybody on that list if they want to join. You can always tell the leaders "no" if you want. It would be more like free agent signings.

This idea is similar to what happened when I was new. Some known players started teams and decided to pick up some newer players. Me, Dave and Rez got picked up by SR20Owner. EBK was almost on that team, but Owner gave him to FireSpider lol. With some later roster changes, my team and FireSpider's team were well known and lasted awhile.


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Re: Another Season?

Post by dave14810 on April 25th 2013, 12:19 am

Yeah I like that concept. The experienced players would need to be put into tiers, then you could only pick up one player from each of the tiers to help with stop possible stacking, then fill up with inexperienced players. The tiers wouldn't be published since that has led to bruised egos in the past. There might be some squabbling between leaders on who is "experienced" or not but it could be worked through. We would need to see who would be interested in been leaders and take it from there if we did this.

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Re: Another Season?

Post by l_AZ_l on April 25th 2013, 8:34 pm

last time we did this format people (weedy) (harrison) removed players from their team only to stack them other players later in the season. almost pointless. not only that but people complained because i had twofat,mt, and knighticus, and clairebear on my team. all i heard was complaining and bitching because my team was "stacked". umm everyone had the same opportunity to pick up these same players but passed on them with the exception of mt because i had the #1 pick.

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Re: Another Season?

Post by dave14810 on April 26th 2013, 3:29 am

Liquid's suggestion isn't a one by one pick standard draft like the season you are talking about. I agree that season was tainted as soon as they were allowed to make the changes they made, it made a mockery of the whole draft and left a bad taste in the mouth.

Liquid's suggestion is where a leader and a co-leader would be allowed to go out and recruit their own team. We would probably need to put restrictions on top players you can recruit, maybe say one other experienced player and another semi experienced player and then the rest of your roster would be completely new players or players from the weaker teams. We would put together a pool of free agents, split in experienced and inexperienced players that you could recruit if you can't find enough players by yourself. I'd tentatively say rosters of 6 or 7 depending on how much interest there is.

Again its only an initial idea, I have no clue if any of the current admins want to run another season and if they all aren't then we would need to sort of getting new ones. This all of course is dependent on if there is enough interest in another season of any kind, be it like the last one or a draft like season.

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Re: Another Season?

Post by JibJabJessie on April 26th 2013, 2:07 pm

Personally, I went for 2 months in order to have funding for the prizes. I tried to lure some teams from the other league to come play for us, too, by dangling prizes in their faces. Maybe it's not the prizes, but simply playing is what keeps people going... I really don't know. Anyways, it's probably a much better idea to have it shortened to 3-4 weeks without any prizes (or a small purse for 1st place only).

We could try to do bracket elimination this time. Seems like teams scramble last minute though almost every time. Past two seasons for this league, playoffs didn't complete. It seems hard to get the top teams to play each other in a time frame. It's worth a shot at least if the season will be so short.

All the past drafts were mediocre at best. Stacking happened. It's hard to say who's "low-tier", "mid-tier", or "high-tier" simply because we have different perspectives and don't all agree. It's based on who you know and how you've seen them play. Maybe a vote could be casted by the admins on what they think of each player. If you have never seen them play, you're going to assume they're low-tier, when that might not be the case. I think stacking will happen again, but maybe teams will play if it's 3-4 weeks long. And yes, keep it a secret! That was a headache last time when the list was shown.

I do not plan on doing another season. I think MK and Sugar are done as well. I do not know about Qud. In other words, I'd look for more admins if you guys wish to continue :D
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Re: Another Season?

Post by xShAmE oN YoUx on April 27th 2013, 2:46 am

Play matches early and often. Play! Play! Play!
Lead without raging
Teammates need to be receptive and active
Play any and everyone without fear or worry of losing
(Ima tell you like spinelli told me when I joined gamebattles. "You're going to lose at first k, but don't get mad and quit.")
Stay loyal to your young team

I had almost 3 paragraphs ready to type but that pretty much sums up it all. Either way this "league" thing is not going to work unless activity increases
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Re: Another Season?

Post by K3ppoch on April 27th 2013, 11:00 am

Thus came a wall of text.

I too like the idea of a free agent/draft thing. Even though the last drafts were unsuccessful, they were quite some time ago now. If it gets organized correctly, we may solve some of the previous issues. The only un-solvable one I think is that people will not want play with people they don't know, so will be very picky as to who they play with. I think that instead of making assumptions that untested league methods won't work (be it a bracket elimination, new draft type, etc), we can experiment and find which way will be good consistently. I've learned that things die when no events get organized for too long. What I've also learned is that nothing makes people not play more than a league that doesn't work. We just need to recreate the way the really active times were achieved, then learn to sustain it through methods such as smaller time periods, more organization instead of "Here's a date we're gonna stop the season, go off and play and tell us about it afterward", because I've noticed that not much keeps teams motivated that way.


The way things have been rolling thus far, it's just not at all welcoming to new teams and the expansion of the community as the same 4 or so teams will always come back and end up on top, while the other teams stop playing within the first 2 weeks. Once we get people hyped up and needing to bring their "A" game every game where there isn't those same teams that will obviously lose, but instead there is a balance and close competitive matches each time, then a working system will arise to keep people motivated.

To sum it up: Find a general system that works best to keep people playing, then play around with the little details. I realize this game is on the decline, but there has to be SOME way to be innovative enough to capture the interest of both new and veteran players.
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Re: Another Season?

Post by SicKxLiquiD on April 28th 2013, 12:53 am

I think the half-draft could be a good idea. Kids that play L4D but not in the league will join for the fun of being drafted. The season after that we let people do whatever they want. Some people will have a taste and want to play more so they will make their own team. The whole idea is a promotional event to get more activity for the "real" season.

I dont think there should be a prize for this idea. When people get greedy they will try to kick the Bks off to add good players. Like I said, the draft is just a trick to lure more players in so maybe the league wouldnt die so fast. Sorry we need to trick "competitive" players into playing competitivly but like seriously. We have actual tournaments.

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Re: Another Season?

Post by xShAmE oN YoUx on April 28th 2013, 4:08 am

SicKxLiquiD wrote:I think the half-draft could be a good idea. Kids that play L4D but not in the league will join for the fun of being drafted. The season after that we let people do whatever they want. Some people will have a taste and want to play more so they will make their own team. The whole idea is a promotional event to get more activity for the "real" season.

I dont think there should be a prize for this idea. When people get greedy they will try to kick the Bks off to add good players. Like I said, the draft is just a trick to lure more players in so maybe the league wouldnt die so fast. Sorry we need to trick "competitive" players into playing competitivly but like seriously. We have actual tournaments.

What ever happened to people playing for the love of the game and not prizes?......
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Re: Another Season?

Post by Legend on April 29th 2013, 2:11 pm

Lol i never understand this veteran thing, out of the 20 teams there were, at least 80-90 percent of those players have been playin since confogl came out, but i remember alot of these names since regular versus. So theres no reason it shouldnt be competitive, ppl just dodge cause they hate losing but i mean everyone does cause its competitive. Dave youve been playin forever, how come you dont have a top team of "veterans"? This game has been around a long time so why arent ppl better at it? I only play a game or two every couple of days and im still not that bad, i win games all the time. Idk but drafts never seem to be the answer, a tournament is probably the best idea, alot of ppl played in the first few confogl tourneys, the reason ppl dont play the playoff tourneys at the end is probably loss of interest in the game cause everyone gets bored after two weeks and stops playin cause dodgin or losing and raging

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Re: Another Season?

Post by Foxtwins2 on April 29th 2013, 5:48 pm

The league we're finishing right now is easily the best way a competitive league should be; however too many people dodged and obviously hardly any games were played, making it a fail. So clearly this will never work. In my opinion we should should try to makes these leagues more about activity now because this isn't working out. So how will we do this? Well, not that I'd love for Phoenix to win 50 games against Dragonleetina again but the fact is that games were played.. So we should have it were if you win a game you get three points and if you lose you get one point, something like that. With this we throw out Dave's scoring system, which I really liked, and have a win be a win. This way Good teams won't mind playing bad teams and bad teams won't care because they're getting points but at the same time getting better practice than they would facing scrubs. Thus increasing activity. But my main point that we need to change is this. If you look at every season and see how the teams started dropping out you'll see a pattern. It's pretty obvious but it's because they play badly or simply just lost in close game. For example, this league tofu and vorym dropped out because they were not doing too well. But yet they still played l4d2 4v4s all the time, not 100% sure but that's what im told. Now just making this clear, I'm not saying they're a bad team by any means because they're good but the fact is their win loss record was bad. So I suggest on the website we simply show the places of the teams and points. This way people won't be embarrsed what place they're in because people won't know whether it was because they didn't play many games or lost a lot. This also works because teams will still know that they need to play x games to get ahead of y team. Although personally I'd like my team's record to be shown; too many teams are scared to play because if they lose it'll be displayed to the world. So, that's my idea. I think this would make a lottt more people play.

Sorry for not making paragraphs I was too lazy but this time I'll do it. My view on the draft is this. Idk about all of you but personally I love playing with my team. Not just because we're a good team but because we have fun. Not for nothing but I don't feel like playing games with random people I just won't have much fun. Plus, once the draft is over, the people who were hooked up with the two leaders or whatever probably won't play with them much anymore. So, I say for the people who aren't in a team are just put in a draft. And if anyone says "well then they'll always get raped because they'll never learn without a leader." That's not true. Cosby my brother, Sykahtick for a while, and myself never had people train us or anything. We simply learned through experience. Look where we're at now. If anything the players who don't have a team and get drafted will find that even after the league they'll still play together. Atleast hopefully. But idkkkkkk these are just my ideas you can take what you want from them. Maybe in the future I'll be able to get games besides the few playing Rob, Legend, Meyghan, and Liquid.
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Re: Another Season?

Post by SicKxLiquiD on April 30th 2013, 8:53 am

I just want to play LMs. I get bored playing the same 4v4s over and over again. Honestly, half the time I get a tank I just go straight in cause bored.

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Re: Another Season?

Post by Glitch on May 1st 2013, 4:39 am

Foxtwins2 wrote:It's pretty obvious but it's because they play badly or simply just lost in close game. For example, this league tofu and vorym dropped out because they were not doing too well. But yet they still played l4d2 4v4s all the time, not 100% sure but that's what im told. Now just making this clear, I'm not saying they're a bad team by any means because they're good but the fact is their win loss record was bad.
Uhm wat?

I 'dropped out' of the league because we made a random new team with people I've never played with before (crazylegs, meyghan), and it fell apart. It happens.

Me dropping out had nothing to do with our record...hell, my team played ebk 3 times in a row, and GMG twice, and lost every game. We could've probably evened out our record by playing the worse teams but we only played the top ones every game we got. Obviously didn't care about our record. We had bad chemistry and yeah we played badly...Crazylegs left and then tony raged and it fell apart. Not on me.

When our first team fell apart I didn't really care enough to try to make another team to re-enter. The only people I played with regularly were Tony and Tofu and we didn't feel like trying to find a 4th to make another team with. Otherwise I would've stayed in with my bad record.

Check yo facts bro, we don't care about losing. Just wanted to play.



(ps 1-0 against wrathchild's league team Wink )
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Re: Another Season?

Post by Legend on May 1st 2013, 12:52 pm

1-0 only because "Crystal" wasnt there to back pack wrath haha

If a draft does happen, it should be the best 40 players we can get so we can draft 8 teams of 5. No offense to the rest of the badkids but i think eight pretty even teams would be alot better then 20 teams where no one plays. Thats iff theres even another season of this shitty game

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Re: Another Season?

Post by Foxtwins2 on May 1st 2013, 8:16 pm

@Vorym
First off making a new random team or whatever is irrelevent to the fact that you disbanded. Also, playing badly and having a bad record goes hand and hand. One more thing is that by when I said "Tofu and Vorym dropped out" I meant your whole team not you personally. Sorry if I didn't make that clear. Anyways, what I said about you was just a way to explain my idea. I think if we gave it a shot it'd work. But, that's for everyone to decide not me. Like I've said already, if we make another league it needs to be based more on activity than competitveness; aka no dave scoring system. I can almost promise if we simply just put the places of teams and their points that there will be a significant jump in games played without fear of their W/L record being shown.
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Re: Another Season?

Post by l_AZ_l on May 1st 2013, 8:39 pm

i agree with legend. if there is going to be any sense of consistent competition, the league needs to be lowered to 8 solid teams of 4 or 5. but, in all honesty, its gonna be the same top 3 teams of mine,legends and ebks. so i almost see this as a pointless game going forward.

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Re: Another Season?

Post by Ron_Jeremy on May 1st 2013, 10:41 pm

Legend wrote: 1-0 only because "Crystal" wasnt there to back pack wrath haha

If a draft does happen, it should be the best 40 players we can get so we can draft 8 teams of 5. No offense to the rest of the badkids but i think eight pretty even teams would be alot better then 20 teams where no one plays. Thats iff theres even another season of this shitty game



40 people still play????????!!!!???!?!?!?!?!? I can't even find 40 people when I'm searching for pub games Clown

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Re: Another Season?

Post by Legend on May 1st 2013, 10:55 pm

Lol the 4 teams in the playoffs have 24 players by themselves theres definitely enough for forty players. Oh an for the pub thing try searching for dead center lots of games

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Re: Another Season?

Post by Glitch on May 2nd 2013, 2:11 am

Foxtwins2 wrote:@Vorym
First off making a new random team or whatever is irrelevent to the fact that you disbanded. Also, playing badly and having a bad record goes hand and hand. One more thing is that by when I said "Tofu and Vorym dropped out" I meant your whole team not you personally. Sorry if I didn't make that clear. Anyways, what I said about you was just a way to explain my idea. I think if we gave it a shot it'd work. But, that's for everyone to decide not me. Like I've said already, if we make another league it needs to be based more on activity than competitveness; aka no dave scoring system. I can almost promise if we simply just put the places of teams and their points that there will be a significant jump in games played without fear of their W/L record being shown.
Uh it's entirely relevant for us disbanding, actually. I was never and will never be butthurt about my record/score/whatever you want to call it. Other people that may apply to, but don't use me as an example when I actually prefer Dave's scoring system.

EITHER WAY teams that are worse will have a worse record, no matter how you display it or don't display it or embellish it. If kids wanted to play simply to play and be more active they would. There's nothing you can do to encourage teams to play when they're out there losing every single game - no matter what scoring methods you use. They're still losing and getting upset over it which will stop them from playing.

So I don't know why people still think there's some genius new way to make new/pubby/bad teams go play people like AZ and Doubledragon's team without getting discouraged. Not gonna happen breh. You guys will have to play the same 4 teams until this game is off life support.


Last edited by Glitch on May 2nd 2013, 2:16 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Another Season?

Post by Glitch on May 2nd 2013, 2:15 am

Legend wrote: 1-0 only because "Crystal" wasnt there to back pack wrath haha

If a draft does happen, it should be the best 40 players we can get so we can draft 8 teams of 5. No offense to the rest of the badkids but i think eight pretty even teams would be alot better then 20 teams where no one plays. Thats iff theres even another season of this shitty game


Quotes Legend? That's not very stealthy of you. Wink


I'm curious to see a draft play out with the people who are still active. I think it'll be hilarious.
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Re: Another Season?

Post by Foxtwins2 on May 2nd 2013, 5:10 am

@Vorym
I understand that's WHY you disbanded but you're missing my point... I was just trying to say that you disbanded that's all. Whether you wanna call it on playing badly *which goes hand and hand with your record*, making a new team with failure chemistry, whatever. You're looking at what I'm trying to say the wrong way. Again this isn't directed at you personally, just your team as a whole. Also, I completely favor Dave's scoring system for the competitive league but it failed. Thus, my idea. All I want is for us to give it a shot. Might as well try something different than repeat everything.
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Re: Another Season?

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