Winter L4D2 Tournament

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Winter L4D2 Tournament

Post by That One Common on November 14th 2013, 8:52 pm

So, Not So Saviour and I are hosting a tournament for Confogl this December. We're accepting any and all teams or players that wish to play. We hope to get as many players as we possibly can. We'll be running it similar to a past tournament in the sense that every game you play will be scored (wins will gain you either 10 or 8 points, losses will gain you either 5 or 2 points.)

The tournament will be played all-health by default, but teams can decide to play starter-pills. Molly's are illegal, but gas cans aren't. Hunting Rifle will most likely be banned until the 4th and 5th chapters. :)Any other rules you wish to know or any information you'd want to know about, message Not So Saviour or x Evergloam and we'll get back a.s.a.p. Smile

p.s. Any and all feedback is welcome, and like we said, any team or any player is free to join. Just message x Evergloam, Not So Saviour or l RnRDixonCider who you're playing with.

- Evergloam

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Re: Winter L4D2 Tournament

Post by K3ppoch on November 14th 2013, 11:22 pm

You guys should establish some base rules. What's illegal and what are the penalties? What's up with the 10/8 and 5/2 point system? Maybe provide explanations for why you're putting in rules like no hr maps 2-3, why gas cans can be used, etc. What do you do in disputes? What happens if you lose connection and get sent back to lobby in a LM? Does it count as a forfeit if when it goes back to lobby one team was winning but they don't resume because they can't remember exact scores? Rules for playing teams consecutively in a row? If someone lags out during a hit? If the tank glitches out but if you restart chapter it'll Valve screen everyone like on c2m2? Maybe give some exact dates for signup deadline, and between when can you get official matches? If one team reports a win and the other team denies the game happening, what do you do when there's no video evidence? Prizes? Team roster changes during the tournament? There's just a few holes that if filled it would make things way less confusing. People would want to join more if it's a well structured and organized system. That way they can get on and play, report the results, and let that be the end of it without having a dozen questions. At the moment it seems like it would be just the same as it is now, random scrim 4v4s, but now you get meaningless points on top. Don't get me wrong, I'd love another tourney, but it needs to work well or else it won't get anyone signing up.
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Re: Winter L4D2 Tournament

Post by Not So Saviour on November 15th 2013, 1:28 am

Evergloam Will be posting the rules and explanations tomorrow the things listed above were suggetions and ideas. We have pretty much everything you asked covered. Sorry for the late reply

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Re: Winter L4D2 Tournament

Post by dave14810 on November 15th 2013, 6:01 am

I still check the site periodically and it finally paid off, new posts. I commend you guys for trying to put this together, I don't think the timing of it is very good with the new gen consoles coming out but that's whatever.
I wasn't aware there were still gas cans in confogl, other than ones that spawn for one team and not the other. I endorse the all health rule but it will probably done rarely, people love to get wiped on this game. Unless by some miracle people are making saferooms with SPO and HR regularly now I wouldn't remove the HR, don't buff SI more than they already are. People wipe too much and if a tank is going to throw rocks in plain sight with no support hitting he deserves to lose half his health. I'd advise taking a look at the rules we put in place for the last season, we put a lot of discussion into making them and I think we covered most bases.

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Re: Winter L4D2 Tournament

Post by That One Common on November 15th 2013, 3:51 pm

We were going for the all-health rule because it would help change the gameplay, as would the Hunting Rifle. Teams do wipe with the HR still in play and SPO, but the way people would play would have to change to suit the lack of a Hunting Rifle. We were throwing that idea out there to see how people felt about it in the tournament (or the lack thereof)

If enough people dislike the idea of HR being taken out on the 2nd-3rd maps, we'll put it back, and the All-Health rule can be changed if both teams agree on it in the lobby.  The 10:4 points system is to help increase activity. The servers are active once again, and the tournament will be hopefully played as a means to gather any and all teams, both new and old, from the woodwork and get the community back to this dead game.

Now, onto the rules.

=-=

* There will be a limit of 5 people to a single team. Players will have an additional 5th person in their roster in case of any issues with having a player online or if their team requires a substitute. However, you can only have this 5th person and the 4 people on your roster to play with. 
* Games will be played on a point system similar to an older league. Wins will earn you 10 points, losses earn you 4 points. When the game is over, the team leaders are to report the outcome to x Evergloam or Not So Saviour.
* When the tournament enters the semifinals, the top 4 teams will play against each other in a best out of 3 gaming rule. Teams will play each other in a best of three elimination.Once the outcomes have been received, the finals will be played the same against the teams that won the semifinals.
=-=

* An individuals actions do not effect his team, but his standing on that team. If a member of someones team breaks a rule, they will be dealt with by the admins.
* Actions done in bad taste (ladder blocking with infected, spitting in the elevator on Hard Rain, etc etc) will be banned and result in your team losing that match. 
* Jockey-punching is illegal. I'm sure most of you know what this is, but if not: Jockey-Punching is when a Tank or Charger punch/scratch a Jockey'd survivor and it deals double damage to the survivor. A Charger Jockey-punching does 20 damage and a Tank Jockey-punching is an instant incap. Anyone caught doing this will be subjected to an immediate loss.
* Hunting Rifle will be illegal on the first 3 maps for most campaigns (the only exception is Dead Center, where it's illegal for the first 2, The Passing, where it's illegal for the first 2, Crash Course where it's illegal for the first 1 and The Sacrifice, where it's illegal for the first 2.)
* The default rule for games is all-health. This means any pills or adrenaline can be used by either team. Teams can agree to play starter pills, but both teams must agree to these rules.
* Teams can change the health rule, such as changing the rule to Start Pills Only, but both teams must agree! If one team does not agree, the rules will be played as default (all-health)
* If a team comes across an issue, such as a teammate lagging out on survivors or infected, they are to call an all-talk and stop moving immediately unless they are bleeding out. Survivors bleeding out can push and the game will be played normally. The team lacking a player will have to find a replacement 4th immediately. Survivors not bleeding out must stay in place until all players are in the game once again.
* Teams can push on Tanks so long as survivors do not enter the saferoom. Deathracing past a tank will result in an immediate loss. If a tank is behind the survivors for some reason, survivors can not push ahead in the level. Doing so results in, again, an immediate loss. 
* Witches must be addressed. Cr0wning, spiking (headshot with the Hunting Rifle) or any method that does not glitch her out must be done to any witch. If survivors cannot find the witch, such as an instance where she is in a hard to reach place, the survivors or infected can call an all-talk vote to inform the survivors. If this is the case, survivors can ignore the witch.
* Glitches will be punished with the offending team losing their match, and any rule breaking will be punished by the admins depending on the severity of the rule breaking.
*Teams are required to record the scores after every round ends. This can be done in any way, so long as the scores are recorded (writing it down, actually recording, etc etc.)
* If a dispute occurs, teams can solve it between themselves by talking to the other team. If someone has recorded proof, they are to show it. If an issue isn't able to be solved between the two teams, someone is to message x Evergloam or Not So Saviour and the admins will deal with the situation as seen fit.  Admins will be unbiased and will be fair to come with the best outcome and solution. Unless said otherwise between teams, disputes are to be solved with a restart chapter once solved.
* When teams are playing a league match, the team leaders or any member of the team is to message x Evergloam, l RnR DixonCider or Not So Saviour that they are league matching and who they are league matching. This is to prevent teams from lying about winning or losing. I personally will keep track on who's playing who if possible.
*Teams can use a ringer so long as this ringer is not already on a team registered in the league (So someone cannot borrow from the Admin team, or anything like that)
*Teams can not play the same team over and over again to boost points. Playing the same team more than 2 times in a row will result in an immediate loss of any points gained this way. 
* Prizes will be given out to the top 2 teams that reach the finals, but the prizes have not yet been determined completely. At the moment, second place is getting customized L4D2 posters. The top team (subject to change) will receive $25 Microsoft points cards (or whatever they're called now) for each member.
*There is no deadline for teams joining as teams can join mid-league so long as they message the admins (l RnR DixonCider, Not So Saviour and x Evergloam)and the tournaments end deadline will be determined depending on how many teams join the tournament. The more teams we have, the more time we'll be glad to add to the deadline to allow more games to be played. The tournament however will begin on December 1st , but this is subject to change.
I think I covered everything. Not sure, but if there's anything else you'd want to know about, I'll be sure to post it as soon as possible (I lack internet right now at home, so Not So Saviour may post in my place.)


Last edited by That One Common on November 15th 2013, 6:03 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Winter L4D2 Tournament

Post by Not So Saviour on November 15th 2013, 4:08 pm

Yeah about the only major issue that we currently have is being able to edit the threads we post on the forum. I am not worried about the next gen systems due to their prices.

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Re: Winter L4D2 Tournament

Post by dave14810 on November 15th 2013, 5:16 pm

I have a few thoughts for you guys on the rules.
1.There are a few things that need to be stated in the rules because technically they aren't glitches but are considered bad form i.e. hitting the moustachio, blocking ladders with SI, jumping off a high ledge and holding the use button to pick up a downed survivor, spitting in elevator on hard rain.
2. You say no ringers are allowed at the start of the rules but then say its okay if they aren't on a team later on.
3. When you put an arbitrary points penalty for something you make it exploitable. Its easier just to outright ban it and make it an automatic loss.
4. "If teams call an all-talk vote during the map without a reason, such as to brag, they will get 3 strikes. If a team gets 3 strikes, they automatically forfeit the match to the other team." This rule is easier said than done, who can prove who called the vote? A team might call 2 votes but then in a situation where they might have called another, the other team could put up a vote and make it seem like a 3rd strike and even if they don't the team with 2 votes already could say they were framed. Who can tell the difference.
5. Making it a rule that 2+ survivors need to be bleeding to keep moving when someone lags out is an awful idea imo. The whole idea behind waiting is as a courtesy, you should not be punished for it by losing bleedout just because you only have one. You should only ever have to wait when everyone is perm health. It is also exploitable eg Jimmy could tell Johnny to pretend to lag out when other team has one person bleeding out then tell him to come back in when that survivor is 1 hp
6. The tank rule is confusing. You can push a tank to a better location if he is behind you but you can basically deathrace if he is infront of you??
7. Good luck trying to get people to msg you before a game starts and with the result afterwards. You will be lucky to get both teams to msg with win or loss.
8. Allowing teams to play each other 3 times a day is boosting.
9. That's all I have for now.



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Re: Winter L4D2 Tournament

Post by dave14810 on November 15th 2013, 5:40 pm

"Yeah about the only major issue that we currently have is being able to edit the threads we post on the forum. I am not worried about the next gen systems due to their prices."

When you go into the edit post, click on the "switch editor mode" button. It is the last icon on the toolbar. This makes the post you want to edit visible.

Actually you need to press it twice. I just edited.

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Re: Winter L4D2 Tournament

Post by That One Common on November 15th 2013, 6:03 pm

The teams messaging the result is all we require otherwise we have no method of knowing if teams are even playing. The teams messaging pre-game was just a precaution so teams couldn't do the entire 'we played them' and the other team denies it. I'm pretty sure we could just check profiles and stuff and do it like that, or just trust in players. Smile Thank you for showing at least some interest in a possible tournament, it helps a lot in getting things working properly. The post with the rules has been edited.

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Re: Winter L4D2 Tournament

Post by Not So Saviour on November 15th 2013, 6:25 pm

Rules are currently being fixed the way we said them were more confusing than the way we meant them. But I am on mobile version dave that's why I can't edit my posts lol

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Re: Winter L4D2 Tournament

Post by Not So Saviour on November 15th 2013, 9:16 pm

Rules are currently being fixed the way we said them were more confusing than the way we meant them. But I am on mobile version dave that's why I can't edit my posts lol

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Re: Winter L4D2 Tournament

Post by dave14810 on November 15th 2013, 9:33 pm

Oh okay, when I went to edit a message it was blank and only became visible when I clicked on the editor mode button. I didn't realize you were on a mobile version, however when you are able to edit you might run into the problem I did.

I don't expect for every suggestion I make to be implemented, they might not all be perfect. However my suggestions for the rules are only to show you how they can be possibly exploited. When you come up with a rule you have to ask "how can this rule go wrong, is it possible to enforce and is it fair?" There are some cases where a jockey punch is by complete accident or where a rock hits a jockied survivor and incaps and in these cases its harsh for automatic loss. There is the possibility for an AI tank to jockey punch also. It is the single most difficult issue to try and come up with a fair rule for, and as admins we struggled to come up with an agreement on it. This is more or less the rule guideline we used last season for it (it wasnt updated in our rules season 5 section):
When a jockey punch occurs there is an auto points deduction of 75pts for hitting green survivor, 50 pts for orange and 25 pts for red. The tank must immediately stop attacking and get out. All other SI must cease to attack and get out, any that secured must be allowed to be cleared. The tank and SI are not allowed to attack again until the incap resulting in the jockey punch is picked up. If playing SPO you are allowed to pick up another set of pills also. A bot tank is still the SI teams responsibility. Same rules apply except SI are not allowed to attack until bot tank is dead and the incap is picked up. You can also give the survivor team the option to restart chapter with opposing team keeping previous chapter score minus deductions above.

You can tinker with the penalties if you like, you don't have to even consider the idea but its an option that can be given to the survivor team. They should have the advantage if a jockey punch occurs. Another option is to give zero points to offending team for the round and let the other team replay chapter. 

There is plenty of time until you start the league to get the rules tightened up. At the end of the day you want to make your role as admins as easy as possible and the best way to do that is to have your rules set covering all bases and explain every possible scenario and what to do in each. Then when you have to make a decision on a dispute you just ask "Well did you do what it said in the rules?"

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Re: Winter L4D2 Tournament

Post by SicKxLiquiD on November 15th 2013, 10:42 pm

1 for win and 0 for loss. ONLY way it works. 4 pubs can make a team and lose enough games to make playoffs. Not only that, they can decide who else makes playoffs. Piss the bad team off and now they wont boost with you. Get on their good side and they will play you max times every day.

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Re: Winter L4D2 Tournament

Post by SicKxLiquiD on November 15th 2013, 11:03 pm

I see no reason why the HR needs to be taken out. Like really? Before the HR everyone played bitch-tank forever. Back then we used fire to try to prevent tanks from killing us. No molly and no HR sucks hard. PS. Gas cans don't spawn for both teams so they shouldn't be allowed. Only the fireworks on DC5 spawn for both teams and they are OP.

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Re: Winter L4D2 Tournament

Post by Not So Saviour on November 16th 2013, 12:28 am

They were ideas so chill. Hr will be legal gas cans will be legal.

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Re: Winter L4D2 Tournament

Post by Not So Saviour on November 16th 2013, 12:30 am

We have two qeeks yet to wrap up the official rules for the tournament we are fixing asany issues as possible

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Re: Winter L4D2 Tournament

Post by Not So Saviour on November 16th 2013, 12:33 am

Gas can will not be legal

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Re: Winter L4D2 Tournament

Post by K3ppoch on November 16th 2013, 2:07 am

You guys should still address what happens if the tank glitches out of the map when it passes. Also, you mention glitches result in a loss. What glitches are these? If you get by a tank onto a spot where you can't be hit and stay up there? Duplicating items? Just a couple a specific examples would be cool. The Jockey punch can, and in almost all cases be accidental. The instant loss for this I don't think is stable enough. If the tank passes AI with no health WAY behind the survivors? Can they push then? What happens when the survivors start a crescendo while the tank is up? Those are just some questions that should be resolved.
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Re: Winter L4D2 Tournament

Post by Not So Saviour on November 16th 2013, 3:20 am

Yeah I know. We are working on it evergloam does not currently have internet and I am working a lot so I have limited amount of time to post things. We should have everything done and posted soon.

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Re: Winter L4D2 Tournament

Post by DrKnowMaD on November 18th 2013, 12:22 am

LOL, on a whim I decided to check some old bookmarks.

Liquid and K3 have played a few games and should have their ideas seriously considered too.

I wasn't sure when to get gold, think I might have to come back sooner for this.


Lates, Fungi Feats

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Re: Winter L4D2 Tournament

Post by That One Common on November 18th 2013, 3:54 pm

Rules

Admins: l RnRDixonCider, x Evergloam, Not So Saviour and dave14810

*The tournament will begin on December 1st. The semi-finals will begin on December 22nd, and the finals will begin on December 28th and end January 1st. This allots you enough time to play the minimum and maximum of games, as well as allow teams to work schedules in their games to make sure everyone will be able to play a game. 
*The tournament will ultimately be played on a point system, not a ladder or bracket system. The winning team will receive 3 points while the losing team receives 1. 
*Teams are required to play at least every team 1 time to make it to semi-finals. 
*Teams can not play a team more than 8 times. 
*Inactive teams (teams that have not played a game within a week) will be removed unless a reason is given beforehand or during the inactivity.
*The roster size is 5 unless stated otherwise. This allows you to have a full team to play with, as well as a registered replacement. 
*Ringers are allowed. The opponent team must agree that you can use ringers, but you can not use more than 2 ringers in a game. 
*Ringers can not be on a different team. This also applies to alternate accounts. 
*Teams can join the tournament up until December 8th (one week after the tournament starts). 
*The maps that are allowed to be played are...

Dead Center,
The Passing,
Dark Carnival,
Swamp Fever,
Hard Rain,
The Parish,
No Mercy,
Crash Course,
Dead Air,
Death Toll,
Blood Harvest.
The Sacrifice.

No Mercy, and Cold Stream have no tanks on the first map, and the fourth map has no tank for No Mercy. 

=-=

Notes for maps:
* Hard Rain
The finale is not to be played. 
On Chapters 2 and 3, spitting in the elevator is illegal. 

* Dark Carnival
On Chapter 2, standing on top of the shelves is illegal. Doing so glitches out the horde, forces the tank to die if it goes AI, and is overall a cheap move. 
On Chapter 4, triggering the Mustachio bell by infected is illegal. 
On Chapter 4, if the tank spawns in the barns, you are not allowed to push on top of the barns for deathracing points. 
On Chapter 5, the survivors are not allowed to jump on the tent outside of the saferoom. If a tank hits you up there, you are to jump down immediately. 

* Swamp Fever
On the finale, survivors must stand in the corner to the left of the radio that starts the finale. 

* The Parish
On the finale, survivors are not allowed to jump in the glitch spot on the posterior end of the first hole. The commonly known spot behind the ear of the bus is okay to use as you can still hang a survivor from there, but you cannot hang a person standing on the other spot. 
On the finale, survivors cannot run past the tank for deathracing points or move past the buses onto the second part of the bridge until the tank is dead. 

* Dead Air
On Chapter 5, for the finale, the survivors must camp in the corner by the fence and open terminal. When tank spawns, survivors can move away if they wish, but must return there after the tank is killed.

* Death Toll
On the finale, survivors must fight the horde inside of the house until the tank spawns. 

* Blood Harvest
On the finale, survivors must fight the horde inside the house until the tank spawns. 

=-=

*No fire is allowed. This includes: Gas Cans, molotovs, fireworks.
*One pipe bomb and one bile jar is allowed
*The default rule for games is all-health. This means teams can pick up any pills or adrenaline shots they find on the map for their own use. This rule can be changed, so long as both teams agree on it. 
*An all talk vote must be called each round. This signifies both teams are ready and set to go. If not everyone votes, the survivors are to stay in the saferoom until everyone is ready. 
*Survivors can not enter a saferoom when the tank is alive. The running on tanks/pushing past a tank rule has ultimately been removed. Try to be a good sport and fight the tank instead of running. Deathracing will be dealt with by the admins if they see the act as deathracing (pushing to a more suitable area and running halfway across a map are two seperate things.)
*Starting a crescendo event while a tank is alive is illegal.
*If a team mate lags out, survivors must stop while a replacement is found. If survivors are bleeding out, the game will be played normally. 
*If a lag-out persists past 20 minutes, teams can reschedule the game or the team lagging out can choose to forfeit. 
*If a tank glitches out (disappearing under/outside of the map, randomly dying, etc etc) then the chapter must be restarted.
*Glitching or exploiting the game is illegal. This includes: Charging when you're becoming the tank, standing on CI-inaccessible areas, duplicating pills, jockey-punching/rocking, jumping and holding the use button to pick up a survivor, glitching a witch by running to saferoom, ladder-blocking with the SI, etc etc. Teams will be held responsible if these, or any, exploits or glitches are done. 
*Questionable glitches or exploits are to be taken up to the admins. If you're not sure if something is an exploit, message us.
*Witches must be addressed without the use of fire. 
*Be a good sport when you kill SI. Leaving a spitter alive or meleeing infected around is in bad taste and frowned upon. If you see it, kill it. Simple as that.
*An individual is responsible for his own actions, not his entire team. If one person does a glitch, they are held responsible. If one person breaks a rule, they are held responsible.
*Do not spam votes like kick votes or all-talks. It's annoying and should be kept to your pub games or friends only games.
*The punishment for breaking the rules and such will be determined by the admins. This may be a point deduction, loss, etc. etc. but will be judged fairly. 
*T-bagging your teammates is legal.

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Re: Winter L4D2 Tournament

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