Re: Health season 3

by Machiavellus July 21st 2012, 7:02 pm

The game is already tipped in favor of the infected.

I have seen you kids play with HR. Yes HR carries. You apparently have still not learned the old rule, secure HR.

You know PC doesn't even have HR anymore and they still do just fine. Because the HR really is OP. And our HR has a huge reserve of ammo. But it's still one gun. in one person's hand. Team 2 has always had the advantage of knowing item spawns, and removing items from the game is in no way shape r form a fix for that issue.

You guys are afraid of giving survivors buffs, but your survivors do not make saferooms like they are supposed to. We have no ISSUE WITH HB. Because we don't have any teams that are making every saferoom, playing against another team that makes EVERY saferoom.

there are some maps people make that the other team can often get wiped on. DaC4 is an example. BUT MOST OF THE TIME. If you get wiped here it's by the fucking crescrendo. Barely any down. The team that makes the map doesn't get HB so they get almost reward.

Letting everyone have health doesn't fix everything. And yes it causes a few other issues with teams being unable to come out of a hole but the whole point is, if you wipe a team with extra pills, you now have a much better opportunity to make up points on them.

If this season gets played as 400 games on dark carnival with starter pills only, where 95% of the teams die in exactly the same spot regardless of tank spawns, I will no longer be casting them, or involving myself in this sillyness.

PC has taken our mollies. Pipe bombs. Gas cans. Propane. And HR. But they have more health than us. Do you kids not see a problem with this? You're arguing with me because you've gotten used to the way you play, but you're ignoring the fact that the way the game has been going for us for the last two seasons of confogl is not how the game is meant to be played.

You are not MEANT to be able to work down survivors with SI so that any decent team can kill any other decent team by 75% of the way with only 1 charge spit + a series of mediocre attacks.

There is no fix for HB. But you're STILL IGNORING that WITHOUT HB the way we play NOW is WORSE than it would be with MORE HEALTH. Example.

Team A. Up 600 DaC4.
Get smacked. 4 huge attacks land.
They make it to rooftop tank and get punched to crescendo button.
Team B. Make saferoom. Still down what 200~?

At least if you put more health on the maps you've given Team B more opportunities to come back points on the earlier maps. Maybe they just get pushed further down but THAT'S WHAT IS SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN TO THE WORSE TEAM. If you're already at a disadvantage making a comeback is supposed to be difficult. Have you kids never played CS? Do you know nothing about gun game and save rounds?

More health allows for more interesting game out comes.

If for some reason with all this health, and a molly, people just never end up tank wiped ever again. Mollies could get banned. But you kids are still going to get wiped by flaming tanks with 8 temp health items. Maybe you survive the tank, but die to the charge spit two attacks later.

by SlidingPeak July 21st 2012, 7:28 pm

Anyone in this thread can 4v4 me tonight with BP Tony Bren or Unreal

Make 2 maps and I'll try my best to get Mach to make it SPO.

You ALL suck L2 make saferooms.

by xShAmE oN YoUx July 21st 2012, 8:12 pm

tsk tsk tsk

by **mkj13** July 21st 2012, 8:31 pm

by the way health spawn is 3-1 max spawn so compare it to last season we are only adding 2 pills, IF they even spawn

by SlidingPeak July 21st 2012, 8:33 pm

SlidingPeak wrote:Anyone in this thread can 4v4 me tonight with BP Tony Bren or Unreal

Make 2 maps and I'll try my best to get Mach to make it SPO.

You ALL suck L2 make saferooms.

Bump, plz make my night ~

by SicKxLiquiD July 22nd 2012, 3:19 am

I would rather we just keep starters only but im still happy to play with whatever rules. I started to play regular versus cause i couldn't keep L4D2 off my mind when I heard confogl was coming back with the DLC. Hated it but kept playing anyway.

Unrelated side note: Be weary of when friends randomly want to stay over at your house for the night. They could be bringing possible unforeseen drama and then end up living at your house for a few days cause "they got nowhere else to go". Like Stone Cold Steve Austin said "don't trust anybody". LOL

by xShAmE oN YoUx July 22nd 2012, 7:22 pm

SicKxLiquiD wrote:I would rather we just keep starters only but im still happy to play with whatever rules. I started to play regular versus cause i couldn't keep L4D2 off my mind when I heard confogl was coming back with the DLC. Hated it but kept playing anyway.

Unrelated side note: Be weary of when friends randomly want to stay over at your house for the night. They could be bringing possible unforeseen drama and then end up living at your house for a few days cause "they got nowhere else to go". Like Stone Cold Steve Austin said "don't trust anybody". LOL

^^^^ AMEN TO THAT... yes they fixed it!!

by **mkj13** July 22nd 2012, 7:28 pm

I think the league will be good with all health being able to be used. But that doesn't mean when you play 4v4's you have to take it.

But everyone should start playing all health so they get use to it

by Mayor Haggar July 22nd 2012, 7:38 pm

Mach, honestly i didn't read everything you said, but I did want to bring up one point. Just because they play one way on pc doesn't mean we have to play the same way on xbox. That's why this is a discussion about health rules and not a list of them.

Overall, i don't care about the health, but I don't see why we can't limit it. Maybe teams can take an additional shot idk.

by L2Aim July 22nd 2012, 11:17 pm

ALL HEALTH? Lol..

by Weedycrustacean July 23rd 2012, 8:22 pm

Here are my thoughts on this matter. Honestly i still think, and always will think starters only. Yes health has been reduced from 6 pills and 3 shots to 3 and 1. Honestly though where is all that health found? I usually see it at the beginning of the levels, and not really later on. adding extra health especially with it being early will only help the teams that need it. Most teams that are good, and know how to take attacks wont be hurt that badly in the first 50% of the map, if there is no tank. That is my feeling though. Starters in the best way for this to work. I would be mad seeing a great first hit, and than bam they pop pills and find an extra set or two. than my team goes and we dont take any damage really, and we both die at the same point because of this extra health.

by Killa Tofuuu July 23rd 2012, 8:50 pm

I dropped off a new version with Chet this morning based on a tip that I might be able to get a new version in with the DLC. No idea if it will actually happen. But if it does, you can expect:

- Better HR limiting code
* Seems to work perfectly now unless you shove the HR through the floor and lose it.
- Better item limiting code
* Tracks items between rounds to ensure that the same items are in the same spots on both rounds.
* Removes saferoom throwables/pills first to make sure none of the 4 pills per map will be in the saferoom.
* Actually randomized item spawns, so you should see a greater variety of pill/throwable locations
- Melee fatigue min penalty turned down a notch (fatigue comes sooner)
- Gascans, oxygen tanks, propane tanks removed.
- Fireworks crate on DK5 reduced to 1.
- Fixed a rare bug with no-spitter-during-tank that could lead to duplicate SI spawns.
- Better stability all around.

ProdigySim posted this on the steam forums. The health should be spread out more whenever we get the update, but who knows. Either way, I think we should just try which ever one wins this, then if it doesn't work make another poll. I have a feeling all health items will work though.

by L2Aim July 23rd 2012, 9:49 pm

We srsly don't need all pills.
Please, stop this madness.

Sad

by Machiavellus July 23rd 2012, 10:02 pm

The point either way is that the teams that need the health are still limping to the same place regardless.

And I've said over and over that I'm not trying to make us a replica of PC, but you're all still just resisting change.

The reason we invented starter pills only in the first place, wasn't because 4 pills is the perfect amount for us to play this game with. It was because it was the easiest option with ones made AVAILABLE to us.

We had all health. SPO. or FYOP. Because saying you can pick up 1 shot and 1 pill is hard to limit and prove.

Now we have a huge pile of proper limitations, DESIGNED BY ONE OF THE PEOPLE BEHIND THE CONFOGL COMPETITIVE COMMUNITY. By the update health will be properly spread. And so will throwables. There will also be a huge pile of other survivor nerfs if you read that.

And you can give the best player in the world an HR kiddies. If he screws up once, gets secured, and his team can't clear him, then the OP capabilities of the HR are down.

Even if the health -isn't- spread. The fact still remains that the bad teams that need the health, are still limping to the same places and dying with 4 health, regardless of how well they do early on. Whereas the good teams make one mediocre mistake and they've just screwed there chance at even holding a lead with good play in many situations simply because they'll bleed out.

Survivors are not meant to die from bleeding out fellas. They're honestly meant to be able to take pills and jog on if you can't wipe them with 3 secures and such.

All health isn't going to fix the HB. But HB isn't going to fix the problems we have right now with SPO.

And like I've said already. SPO is silly. It was a temporary solution that we came up with because the first edition of the mutation had waaaaay to much health. (More than the version we had before this one even if you remember, because he had medkits converting to pills all over, literally pills every five feet)

But it's not like that anymore. So settle down and give playing a bit more like the PC kids a chance.

You realize even without HB having every team generally make every map and have games come down to that 25 score bonus, you do realize that's absolutely no different than what we do now riiiiight?

Except there's a tie breaker instead of a death racer.

kthxbai.

by Machiavellus July 23rd 2012, 10:03 pm

Machiavellus wrote:

You realize even without HB having every team generally make every map and have games come down to that 25 score bonus, you do realize that's absolutely no different than what we do now riiiiight?

Except there's a tie breaker instead of a death racer.

kthxbai.

by Mayor Haggar July 23rd 2012, 10:24 pm

Why were gas cans, propane tanks, and oxygen tanks removed?

by Machiavellus July 23rd 2012, 10:48 pm

Because fire is OP. And propane tanks are like charger control if you can aim... also you can stumble a tank with one and get 1.5k in damage in ezpz or use the time to light a cigarette, reload your gun, and start a cup of tea.

But otherwise probably more for the PC players of the mutation than us :P

But I'll personally be hugely happy. This'll give you only 1 way to light the tank. No more fire blocking for weeks with gas cans Wink

))

by xShAmE oN YoUx July 23rd 2012, 10:58 pm

Machiavellus wrote:The point either way is that the teams that need the health are still limping to the same place regardless.

And I've said over and over that I'm not trying to make us a replica of PC, but you're all still just resisting change.

The reason we invented starter pills only in the first place, wasn't because 4 pills is the perfect amount for us to play this game with. It was because it was the easiest option with ones made AVAILABLE to us.

We had all health. SPO. or FYOP. Because saying you can pick up 1 shot and 1 pill is hard to limit and prove.

Now we have a huge pile of proper limitations, DESIGNED BY ONE OF THE PEOPLE BEHIND THE CONFOGL COMPETITIVE COMMUNITY. By the update health will be properly spread. And so will throwables. There will also be a huge pile of other survivor nerfs if you read that.

And you can give the best player in the world an HR kiddies. If he screws up once, gets secured, and his team can't clear him, then the OP capabilities of the HR are down.

Even if the health -isn't- spread. The fact still remains that the bad teams that need the health, are still limping to the same places and dying with 4 health, regardless of how well they do early on. Whereas the good teams make one mediocre mistake and they've just screwed there chance at even holding a lead with good play in many situations simply because they'll bleed out.

Survivors are not meant to die from bleeding out fellas. They're honestly meant to be able to take pills and jog on if you can't wipe them with 3 secures and such.

All health isn't going to fix the HB. But HB isn't going to fix the problems we have right now with SPO.

And like I've said already. SPO is silly. It was a temporary solution that we came up with because the first edition of the mutation had waaaaay to much health. (More than the version we had before this one even if you remember, because he had medkits converting to pills all over, literally pills every five feet)

But it's not like that anymore. So settle down and give playing a bit more like the PC kids a chance.

You realize even without HB having every team generally make every map and have games come down to that 25 score bonus, you do realize that's absolutely no different than what we do now riiiiight?

Except there's a tie breaker instead of a death racer.

kthxbai.

I don't think everyone is reading everything you post lol

by Machiavellus July 23rd 2012, 11:30 pm

Maybe I should just compile all the solid reasons for all the rulings into one post and sticky it up at the front of the rules thread yeah?

by xShAmE oN YoUx July 23rd 2012, 11:45 pm

Sure, it beats hearing you babble on for multiple threads but people will still disagree with you... then you'll reply to their comments with more babbling and they'll say something else. then we'll be locked in an endless cycle, but yea go for it. I see no harm.

by Mayor Haggar July 24th 2012, 1:04 am

Machiavellus wrote:Because fire is OP. And propane tanks are like charger control if you can aim... also you can stumble a tank with one and get 1.5k in damage in ezpz or use the time to light a cigarette, reload your gun, and start a cup of tea.

But otherwise probably more for the PC players of the mutation than us :P

But I'll personally be hugely happy. This'll give you only 1 way to light the tank. No more fire blocking for weeks with gas cans ))

If prodigy took out gas cans because fire is OP then why are we still using mollies? Personally, I'd rather have no molly and only gas cans. Gas cans require more skill to use, and require a survivor to carry them. It's honestly all we need, forget throwables.

Though, thats really off topic for this thread.

by Machiavellus July 24th 2012, 1:36 am

Only gas cans gives you way more fire than 1 individual molly. Gas cans can also be used to easily clear horde. And fire blocking tanks while smart, is just a bully move that shows intelligence and no skill.

In reality a gas can light doesn't take that much skill. Go gab one chase a tank, and spam RT with an UZI. It's pretty easy to predict where it's going and shoot it out of the air.

And a gas can light like that is much harder to avoid than a molly once you're in that close with your tank. In fact it's basically impossible to dodge.

Plus you can get the jump on a team of survivors with a molly and incap the survivor with a molly. Then they have no fire until they get the downed survivor up, or he dies.

I literally see no logic in. Remove the 1 molly. Leave the 40 gas cans. All gas cans ever even get used for on xbox is fire blocking and bullying. It's not that we don't see tossed gas can lights because we can't do it, it's just that not enough people have even practiced doing it. Because they just use their gas cans to fireblock and bully the tank.

Now yeah, you can throw your molly anywhere, but tanks really shouldn't be getting lit at those distances anyway. Yeah you can carry it in a throwable slot but, personally I've always disliked the idea of utterly removing mollies and pipes because then there's a throwable slot with no purpose. This gives the throwable slot a purpose. And keeps the throwables balanced due to their limited spawns.

Given all that it's still silly to trade that one molly, for a thousand gas cans. Everyone holds out for tank fights anyway. They don't need a pile of gas cans spawning so they can surround the perimeter with fire until the tank burns out.

And only spawning one gas can per map is not to bad an idea, but who wants to carry a gas can around? It's not any fucking fun to have to have one of the people on your team unable to have their gun out. Shooting your gun is the best part about being a survivor.

And everyone knows you don't -need- throwables to make maps. PC doesn't have throwables. But I personally don't like the idea of banning throwables just because of the sheer pointlessness of the remaining throwable slot. We already got rid of all the gun variety. And it's really not like it was in the pub days where teams could just find a pipebomb every five feet to throw. And a molly inbetween every pipe.

Yes fire is powerful. (it's much less OP once we get the DLC, because the tanks will update to no longer be slowed by fire.) but it's a one use tool. And you want us to forget them in favor of having piles of gascans around for people to bully tanks with? ;_;

by Mayor Haggar July 24th 2012, 2:00 pm

Ok, there are only like 3-4 chapters total with alot of gas cans the rest have maybe one. That's out of the 10 chapters we currently play (9 after we get rid of parish finale). Prodigy just needs reduce the spawns for gas cans to like 1-2 and eliminate throwables. So what if they have to carry it. Everyone knows when the attack is up, just throw it in a corner. It makes more sense than doing the opposite. Also, to imply a gas can requires less skill the than a molly is just being ignorant of the facts. Who continues to carry a gas can after they find a molly? No one because the molly is far superior.

Additionally, who cares about the unused slot in the inventory. Its not like it's anything new, unless we want to give medkits their home back.

by Patriots8781 July 24th 2012, 5:43 pm

We got rid of health kits for the reason of too much health. WTF has this community come to

by xShAmE oN YoUx July 24th 2012, 6:42 pm

Patriots8781 wrote:We got rid of health kits for the reason of too much health. WTF has this community come to

i could answer that, but mk would just delete my post lol

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